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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2008.09.02 15:15:00 -
[1]
 Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Changes in the mineral market and knock-on effects on ship prices relative to insurance in the recent past have changed all that by making the cost of losing a ship to CONCORD increasingly small, and thus the necessary cargo value of a target for a hit to be profitable also considerably smaller, so we've taken steps to redress the balance.
Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for confirming what I've been saying all along. You have no idea. I was starting to think maybe I was a crazy person or something.
But it begs a couple questions:
1) Why are you addressing the symptoms of the mineral market madness? Is there no intention to rectify that situation itself?
2) Why is it even possible for Insurance Payout versus Ship Cost to get so out of wack? Shouldn't there be a dynamic mechanism in place to guard against just such a thing? Seems to me that that would have lead to a finer balance than just wacking out insurance all together.
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Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
|
Posted - 2008.09.02 18:31:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Malcanis
I have just one question: when did nonconsensual PvP become griefing?
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Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2008.09.02 19:05:00 -
[3]
Stay the Course, Man
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Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2008.09.02 19:36:00 -
[4]
EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
I'm breaking out all the golden oldies to try and rekindle that old feel.
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Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2008.09.02 19:39:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Tatsujin Koufu
Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: Kelli Flay
But you agree with the part where he said your kind lacks skill correct?
No, but I would agree that the game that CCP are turning this into requires no skill.
what part of shooting an unarmed hauler that is afk requires skill exactly?
What part of actually flying that hauler that is so hard that it requires game changes to rectify it?
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Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2008.09.02 19:52:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Kelli Flay
Originally by: Ki An
Originally by: Kelli Flay
AFK or not, it can still be destroyed easily once it jumps a gate.
Spoken as someone who has no frigging idea what she's talking about. Tell me: have you ever tried to suicide gank anyone at all?
No but I do know that you can easily catch someone on the other side of a gate. {especially something as slow and aligns like a hauler} and destroy it easily.
This can happen whether the hauler pilot is afk or not.
Which part of this am I wrong about? 
Pretty much all of it.
But whatever. You are the new face of Eve. The "I Know It Alls Cause teh FOREMS told me so" crowd. The "I Knows Just what needs to be Nerfed!"
Thanky CCP! Thanky for lookin out for my FAIR. Cause teh bad old gankers on the forums needed a spankin any old way.
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Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
|
Posted - 2008.09.02 20:14:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Locke DieDrake
Originally by: Roy Batty68
Pretty much all of it.
But whatever. You are the new face of Eve. The "I Know It Alls Cause teh FOREMS told me so" crowd. The "I Knows Just what needs to be Nerfed!"
Thanky CCP! Thanky for lookin out for my FAIR. Cause teh bad old gankers on the forums needed a spankin any old way.
I'm just curious, have you ever ganked someone? Because if you can't gank a hauler as it aligns to warp, you fail at eve. Thank you, good bye.
Yes, I've ganked haulers, in highsec no less. A couple of caracals or a handful of Kessies will do it nicely. Upgrade as needed against harder targets.
The fact of the matter is, I don't see a need for changes. If you want to protect a high value load of cargo, there are PLENTY of ways to do that. Logistics is an important part of eve, and breaking the ability to go after logistics targets (even in high sec) is contrary to EVE IMO. However, I don't think they've done that yet. Just made it harder, which is ok with me.
Dude, you're preachin to the choir. Turn around. She's over that way.
Yes, I've suicide ganked plenty. I've also hauled billions around hisec and right by known suicide gankers. And I've never been popped once. In fact the only times I've ever been popped by another player in Eve is when I went looking for it.
I enjoy the challenges other players provide me. I'm downright silly about them. And I hate to see them slowly nerfed away by dimwitted can't be arsed to think or play types. Especially the ones that come to these forums screaming for nerfs when they don't have a clue what they're talking about, they're just all worked up because someone else complained about it... yep... on the forums.
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Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
|
Posted - 2008.09.02 20:31:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Locke DieDrake
This is such a non-issue. As they say, adapt or die. You can still suicide gank targets... for a price. So you had better make sure it's worthwhile. What is the problem here?
If the complaint is that you can no longer solo gank someone... well, that was always messed up. You shouldn't be able to solo gank anyone in highsec unless they are in a tiny no tank ship. (frig or shuttle or such) That is/was/always will be the point of concord. To make "breaking the rules" hard. (the rules being the sec status of a system)
No worries. I know I'll adapt. 
*****in about the suicide gank nerf wasn't really the momentum that carried this thread on. That was just Kelli and a few others being stupid that side tracked it.
It was Greyscale basically saying that the soul of the game has changed a bit. It's subtle. But it's there.
The quest for "Fair" is a far more drastic nerf to Eve than any suicide gank or nano nerf. The game being hard is what makes it good. Alot of people just don't seem to get that anymore.
Things change. /shrug
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Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
|
Posted - 2008.09.02 21:33:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Saelie
Maybe now I'll be able to fly through Uedama and Niarja without lag-crashing from the 10,000 Concord almost permanently stationed on those gates.
Good old Uedama.
Didn't all those CONCORD make you feel safer though?
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Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2008.09.03 15:21:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Zeknichov
As soon as they made it an exploit to avoid concord it was evident CCP had no intention of having Empire anything but a pseudo safezone.
 True. Now it's just a tug-of-war match to see just how safe it should be.
And even that isn't exactly true. More like a bunch of us geeks rabble-rabble back and forth at each other while CCP rolls their eyes at us and do whatever they were/are planning to do anyway.
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Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2008.09.03 16:04:00 -
[11]
Dude, this thread is getting stupid even by my standards... Now you're seriously talking about sharding?
You guys are really losing it.
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Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2008.09.03 21:05:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Norrin Ellis
Originally by: Ruze
Languages evolve. The word 'terrorist' has developed derogatory terminology that IS offensive to many people, and despite it's 'pure' definitions, it is disrespectful to just throw it around.
Anyone offended by the word terrorist probably is one, and their feelings are of no real consequence to any sane person.
Anyone making sweeping generalizations is probably a Scientologist who wears pink tutus. And they definately shouldn't be served cran-apple juice drinks on Sundays.
See? I can spew nutty, senseless stuff as well! Your turn.
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Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2008.09.03 23:15:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Malcanis
That's fine, but high frequency suicide ganking was caused by mineral prices, ship prices and insurance prices getting out of kilter. CCP have outlawed a symptom without addressing the cause. It's like trying to cure a measles epidemic by making it illegal to have spots.
And Greyscale still hasn't answered my questions from way back here.
Which were:
1) Why address a symptom rather than the actual problem
2) Why is it possible for insurance payout vs. ship cost to get so out of wack in the first place? Shouldn't insurance payout itself be looked at for overall game health?
Of course, there's potentially more. Like:
3) If ship cost vs insurance payout can cheapen ships to such a degree as to make "suicide ganking for lols" a natural reaction, what about the other areas of the game where that dynamic plays a part? Surely suicide ganking isn't the only "bad actor" in that regard. What about wars of attrition when BS are so cheap thanks to min market + insurance? Hasn't "meaningful pvp" taken a hit as well?
4) Is there any thought at all to redesigning the drone regions that have apparently caused so much balance havoc across the game? Mineral market imbalance seems to lead to other issues such as the devaluing of lowsec and some 0.0 mins.
5) If current ship costs are figured into the idea that it should cost you to suicide gank, what about if the mineral market ever reverts back to how it used to be and ship prices go back up? Will that unbalance these recent (and future) suicide gank changes into the realm of being too prohibitive? Or does these changes include a "we never want to see this situation again" finality with it and thus no chance of readdressing it in the other direction?
I'm not an Akita T market expert, but these seem like logical extensions of what has been said in many places, including this thread. If I'm wrong about all this stuff, I wish someone would tell me. I'm losing sleep over it.
But...
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
Changes in the mineral market and knock-on effects on ship prices relative to insurance in the recent past have changed all that by making the cost of losing a ship to CONCORD increasingly small, and thus the necessary cargo value of a target for a hit to be profitable also considerably smaller, so we've taken steps to redress the balance.
seems to confirm it.
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Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
|
Posted - 2008.09.04 22:10:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Malcanis
That's pretty worrying actually.
No it isn't. CCP Dionysus is just the current bearer of the virus that sometimes goes around CCP HQ known as MissQuoteThe****OutOfMe-itis.
It ranks right up there with all the, "Hurr hurr, CCP dev can't fit a vagabond" BS that was paraded around like some blind gopher that had just dug up Jimmy Hoffa and was so proud he had to make a sig out of it.
Read the quote in context and it's so straight forward as to be down right boring. This attempt at, "OMG looky what a dev said" is pretty much the epitome of reaching imo.
Further proof:
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
well, yes. Piracy is a profession.
Suicide ganking might net you some money (but we'd prefer if it was done mainly to stop the other guy from making money).
But the shooty bits dont make you money.
Salvaging, looting etc - that might make you some money, but not necessarily more than you lost if you get destroyed.
Where he basically says, "Yeah, the ACTS of pvp can be done in order to make isks, but the shooty shooty part of that equation is just about blowing things up".
Well, no shit. Shooting ships until they are right down to the last bar does tend to make them explode. How that can be misconstrued into CCP slipping up and letting their evil plan to kill off pvp just before invading Canada is beyond me.
In fact the only thing that was slightly of interest in that particular Gold Bar fest was the bit where he basically says, "No, we don't want Suicide Ganking to be a profession".
Now, just so I don't peg out the Irony-O-Meter, I will admit he doesn't actually say that. But you don't have to hit me over the head with a brick for me to finally get the message... at least no more than 9 or 10 times, anyway.
I'll admit that I find it troubling that CCP is on a quest to find "Fair" in regards to war decs when they apparently couldn't give flip-all about NPC corp protected isk farming or hidden logistics while practically giving a big thumbs up to corp hopping war dodging bean bags. That's a bit troubling.
But if we're going to tote out the flimsiest of out of context dev quotes as our Save Eve campaign tee shirt slogans, I think I'm going to have to defect from the forces of evil. And since I don't care much for the other side of the fence, I guess I'll just have to stand in the middle and get pelted by both the jocks and the geeks in a grand game of humiliate the social outcast dodgeball. Like usual.
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
|
Posted - 2008.09.04 22:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
That was exactly my point. He said that PVP is something done to protect your income. It contrasts the "PVP for fun, missions for ISK" shit I've been hearing constantly.
Well, I apologize if I took your meaning wrong. I figured you were siding with the people who were over reacting within that thread. Having read through it again I see your posts in there are more on the logical side of the aisle.
However I still think that CCP Dionysus' comments were too basic as to derive any weighty meaning from them. If you were implying something else, I must have missed it.
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